Carrying the Load and Uplifting Others

Army veteran Daniel Benjamin steps up to the mic to share his military transition story, from 20 years in signals intelligence to a program manager in cybersecurity and healthcare, on this episode of Exit Buddy: Veteran Stories to Guide You. He recounts how the reserves offered a helpful safety net during his transition into contracting, and how his wife’s military transition deepened his understanding of the diverse challenges veterans face. Daniel also discusses his evolution from managing systems to leading people, and his passion for volunteering and uplifting others.

Chapters

• 01:07 From Music to Signals Intelligence
• 02:37 Heavy Lifting in SIGINT Days
• 04:17 Benefits of the Reserves
• 06:24 Finding His Place in Civilian Contracting
• 08:11 From Technical Roles to Program Management
• 09:31 Mentoring Veterans and Uplifting Others
• 14:06 Dollar Signs and Compensation Calculators
• 16:49 Volunteering to Give Back
• 18:07 Daniel’s Advice to His Younger Self

Key Takeaways

• Build a Safety Net: Daniel found some relief as a reservist because it gave him extra access to training and a backup plan should he lose a contract. Having a plan B in case things go awry can ease the transition to the civilian workforce.
• Do Some Compensation Research: Online calculators can help you understand how much your military pay is equivalent to on the civilian side—but location plays a big role in compensation too. Daniel saw that the same position in Virginia had a much higher salary than its Tampa counterpart.
• Get Your Resume Through Pre-Pub Early: Leverage your network to help you translate your resume into civilian terms. Start working on your resume and get it through pre-publication a year out to ease the process.
• Seek Ways to Uplift Others: Daniel finds joy in volunteering and helping others. Consider exploring opportunities to share your experience and support those around you.

Follow us for more veteran stories to guide your transition journey, and text this episode to a fellow service member who’s navigating their exit. Until next time, keep lifting others up!

Visit us at https://exitbuddy.buzzsprout.com to learn more about the show.

Have feedback or questions for us? Email us at ashleyjones.creative@gmail.com.

Transcript

Kathleen Smith 00:26
Greetings listeners and welcome back to another episode of Exit Buddy: Veteran Stories to Guide You. I’m Kathleen, and I’m here with my fabulous co-host Rachel, ready to dive into another veteran story. Hey, Rachel.

Rachel Bozeman 00:40
Hey, Kathleen, and you had me at story. I love a good story, so I’m so thrilled to be in the studio again. Care to introduce who we’re going to talk to today?

Kathleen Smith 00:51
Absolutely, today we’re chatting with Daniel Benjamin, an Army veteran who served 20 years in signals intelligence and now shines as a program manager in cybersecurity and healthcare. Daniel, welcome to the mic.

Daniel Benjamin 01:04
It’s great to be here, Kathleen.

Rachel Bozeman 01:07
Well, we are so excited you’re here, and I am so excited to ask you this first question, because I heard a little rumor from a very musical little birdie that said you initially joined the army in the hopes of being a military musician. So take us back to the 18-year-old Daniel. How did a woodwind musician who was involved in every musical program in high school end up in signals intelligence? There’s a story here. Tell us.

Daniel Benjamin 01:39
There is, and it’s only slightly embarrassing. So I did join as a musician. Went through all the auditions and everything that you’re supposed to do, and I went to MEPS, and I was ready to sign on the line, and I was looking for what else can I get from the army? My primary reason for joining was to go back to school, but I knew I didn’t want to go to school just then, so I was going to build up my GI Bill and then use that to go to college later. So I asked the recruiter, “Now, what additional money do I get for college? Is there a bonus? Is there anything?” And they said, “No, musicians don’t get bonuses. You don’t get anything.” I said, “Well, then show me what else you have. Which ones have the highest bonuses right now?” And come to find out, there were two Intel positions that were available to me. All source analyst at the time was 96 Bravo, or a SIGINT analyst, linguist, which, in my contract, was originally started as a 98 XL. And so I chose the 98 XL.

Kathleen Smith 02:37
One thing that they don’t teach us in the civilian world is how to get off the mute button. So you mentioned in the pre-call that you joined, or you chose signals intelligence, partly because it was a little less physically demanding than all source. Did you end up lifting heavy things? Tell us a little bit more about your second days.

Daniel Benjamin 03:00
Oh, yes, I’ve lifted very heavy things. I ran around with a much heavier load than I was expecting. The recruiters have a little book that gives you a description of all the jobs that are out there, and one of those sections is physical demands. And all source analysts had a high physical demand, similar to a lot of our combat arms. And the SIGINT analyst didn’t—it was moderate to low. I was like, “You know what? I’m 18 and I’m lazy. I’m going to pick the less heavier lift.” Lo and behold, many years later, I am carrying 200-ish pounds of gear running around Iraq and Afghanistan, and it’s like “moderate lift.” My my behind.

Rachel Bozeman 03:49
Oh, our 18-year-old self and the decisions we make, right? It seems like a great idea at the time, but a great idea that you did have. You transitioned to the reserves in 2013, which gave you a little safety net while moving into the government contracting space. In our pre-call, you did mention that the reserves helped with things like giving you access to training. So how did that dual role ease your shift into that, into the scary, brave world of civilian life?

Daniel Benjamin 04:17
Well, I guess the biggest relief for me was having a safety net. I know not everybody has that opportunity. I was lucky enough to have that safety net when I did the transition, and I chose to go be a reservist, and that allows me things like additional sets for training if I lose the contract. Because not all contract companies are the same. Some of them will just say, “Come in on a Friday—is like, we lost the contract. Don’t come in on Monday. Have a good life.” Others will try and help you find a new position or move you to a different contract. And me, not knowing what I was getting myself into, I was like, “You know what? This is good to have the backup plan in case things go awry, and if I do want to go back into active duty, it’s a little bit of paperwork and transition, so I can go right back.” It was nice extra planning.

Kathleen Smith 05:08
I think that’s really great that you had that safety net, but that you actually had the mental wherewithal to think of that. Because so many people who transition from the military, you’re used to constant employment—there’s always going to be something there. And one of the scary things when you do go into government contracting is, yeah, you may get that call that said, “Sorry, we didn’t, the contract didn’t renew, or somebody else got it and you’re gone.” There’s no two weeks, there’s no severance, there’s no nothing, so good on you for doing the research and finding out that having a safety net is a really good thing. So I heard that you described being a civilian contractor. In that world, it’s “come as you are,” unlike the military has this full support system. You’re given your clothes, you’re told where to live if you have family, they’re taken care of. Your health care is there if you want to advance in your career, the ladder is going to be there, versus coming out here to the scary civilian world, you have to figure it out on your own. So what was the toughest adjustment for you when you went fully civilian, and how did you adapt? Oh,

Daniel Benjamin 06:24
Gosh, there’s so many examples that I have of scary times. But I think for me, it was finding my place. And in this case, it was with a great contract company that’s now been merged with Leidos Environment. It was originally Asymmetric and small companies, great leadership. And I want to say everybody I worked with, aside from one or two, all veterans, all military, so they take care of their people. So it was great. And there were times where contracts didn’t renew, and I get a call from one of the owners, “Hey, this is happening. This is going to be your last day on this contract. What do you want to do now? Here are your options.” And left on Friday with a warm fuzzy, came back to the corporate offices on Monday and had a couple conversations, figured out where I wanted to go, and they were like, “Okay,” and they got everything approved by the CO or the contract representative on the government side, and I think by Wednesday, I was starting a new position on a new contract.

Rachel Bozeman 07:25
That’s awesome. And you did mention one of those scary things out there that was a little nerve-wracking, or could be a little scary, was finding your place, but it sounds like you found your place and have been with the same company since that military transition. Had a couple different names, as you alluded to, but also outside of the name changes, you’ve also changed the different scope of roles that you’re sponsoring. So you’ve had those technical roles like systems engineering and even into program management. So tell us a little bit about how your military skills and that background really helped you balance kind of those transition between those managerial roles or those technical roles. They do require different skills and talents. So how are you able to acquire those throughout your military career and apply those?

Daniel Benjamin 08:11
A great question, and I’ll say the different positions that I’ve held since becoming a contractor and working as a fully civilian is very akin to being in the military when I first started with the company. Now there’s definitely a quite a degree of freedom, but it was definitely more in the technical roles. So you can kind of take a look at it as rank, right? So you start there, you get the low man on the totem pole. You got to prove yourself, just like going into any new business. So you’re doing the technical things. And as you continue to do those, you do better and better leadership positions start opening up. You work with leadership, and you start transitioning to those. So it’s kind of like getting promoted in the military. You know, when you go from junior enlisted, you want to E-4 and then you pick up that first NCO position where you’re kind of in charge of a small team. You’re a team lead on the contractor side, and then eventually you move to, like, site lead, and then program lead, and that’s kind of where I’ve been going. So I’ve kind of worked through systems engineering, cyber analyst, security engineer, and then a position became available for the program management side. I just picked up my PMP when that happened. So it was like a it was almost like a natural fit, and just stepped right in. I knew the customers, I knew the work, and now I’m just taking care of people instead of taking care of systems.

Kathleen Smith 09:31
Sounds awesome. So you’ve been a mentor to veterans through Code Platoon, and you even helped your wife through her military transition. What’s the most rewarding part of helping others navigate their military journey? And how do you encourage veterans to find their footing?

Daniel Benjamin 09:51
The most important thing and the most fulfilling part of mentoring and helping others is watching them succeed. I’ve worked with so many different veterans in the contractor space, even some on the civilian side who didn’t have a mentor, who didn’t have that, and looking back, there’s so many opportunities that they missed, not just opportunities for maybe new positions and getting a larger paycheck, but opportunities to kind of help them with maybe some of their medical things through the VA or not having to deal with the stress of kind of being alone through the entire process.

Kathleen Smith 10:26
And I, yeah, I’ve done a lot of projects with my spouse, and I am sure that helping your spouse through their transition was a little bit challenging. Did that deepen your understanding of those emotional challenges—“You don’t know what I’m going through,” but yes, you do know what I’m going through? So how did helping your spouse deepen your understanding of what transitioning veterans need?

Daniel Benjamin 11:00
Well, when I was helping my wife, she was in a completely different field at times. She was a junior enlisted soldier, as compared to myself, I was a senior enlisted soldier. So seeing what just a little bit of rank gets you in terms of authority to operate, even within the military, to take care of things on your own—it’s crazy. She left as a specialist, and at the time, I just picked up E-7 Sergeant First Class, and so it’s easy for me—I step in, get this signed. No problem. She’s got to have 10 pieces of paper signed from three different people in her chain of command to show up to an appointment, and even then they’re scrutinizing her—“Why are you trying to do this?” And it’s tough, because my experience wasn’t her experience at all, but understanding that and providing the feedback and kind of giving her ammunition for her battles, so that when they say, “Oh, you can’t do this or you’re not allowed to out-process until this date,” and there’s coming back like, “Well, no, here’s the regulations. Say 123, I have to have at least this long. You have to provide me the time and whatnot.” Helped her and reduced a lot of the stress going back and forth. Interestingly enough, at the time, we both out-processed from the same base, but I was on the East Coast and the DC area when she was out-processing in Texas. So phone calls, frustration, tears—it was interesting.

Kathleen Smith 12:34
And I think it’s good to hear that one—you appreciate that, but also being able to provide our listeners with the aspect that everyone’s transition is different, that there may be the standard what we hear in a CAP and TAPS and any program that’s out there, but it’s definitely not one size fits all. It’s definitely rank, what your MOS was, what you’re looking for—it is different, and that’s where you really need to find a network of people who have transitioned before. So that’s why I’m glad we’re doing this show so that people can hear that everyone has a very different experience.

Rachel Bozeman 13:16
Rachel, dare we say you need an exit buddy to help you through the process. I mean, it’s coming full circle—all sorts of fun and surprises. But what I wanted to really kind of dig into a little bit further, because I think this is one that pops up quite often—the transition is that you mentioned in the pre-call that maybe chasing dollar signs really led to some more financial surprises than you were expecting. So maybe on paper, that civilian higher salary looked really good, but then when it hit your bank, it may have been a little smaller on the take-home side. So what advice would you give to those veterans to manage those expectations around compensation? Because they are different, and there’s some different things that go in, some different things that come out. And what advice would you give around those?

Daniel Benjamin 14:06
So there’s a lot of great calculators out there online. You can find one comparatively, like, if you’re making this much in the military, this is how much you need to make on the civilian side in this state to break even. And when I got out, that was the big thing for me is I’m chasing them dollar signs. It was OEF was still rolling. Contractor deployments were out there. I saw my friends who had gotten out earlier, and they were contractors, and they come back from their first deployment and just buy a house cash and like, “Okay, well, I want to do that.” And it was difficult. I’m looking and I was like, “Okay, I’ve got 13 years experience doing this. I should be applying for, like, senior positions.” I was not considered senior by the contractor world at all. And locational pay differential is crazy. Same position—Tampa was 50,000 a year, and Virginia was 95—like, “Well, where are you going to go when you get out?” Use those military programs to figure out how much you can move, and will they move you to your new location? Because you don’t necessarily have to go back to your home of record, and you don’t need to stay at the base that you get out from.

Kathleen Smith 15:22
It’s funny, because that’s a really big one for a lot of people—is the translation. I remember, oh, two decades ago, I was monitoring or moderating a panel, and one of the panelists said that they calculated like, “Okay, this is my rent, and this is how much I need to pay for clothes, and this is how much I need to eat.” And so the person added it up and said, “Okay, the salary I need in those times two decades ago was $28,732,” so even though they had 20 years experience, they went out and they were now trying to negotiate, “Okay, I need a salary of $28,000.” That young lady is now a CEO of a company, and sure her biggest advice is, “Don’t calculate what you need. What is your value?” And as you said, there are plenty of calculators out there online to say, if you live in DC, if you live in Tampa, if you live in Texas, this is what this salary is. Or you can call up Rachel—she will. So, like many of our guests, you volunteer in the community, which is fabulous, and you do Toys for Tots, Code Platoon, VetSec—you love giving back. How does it help you find purpose or balance after leaving the military?

Daniel Benjamin 16:49
I hate watching people struggle. If there’s a way that I can help, even if it’s a little bit, I want to give back, as I’ve been on that end before—wondering, “What am I going to eat tonight for dinner?” And I’ve got 25 cents and I’ve got to feed myself for the next three days before I get paid. So what do we do? I like to give back. You meet a lot of really interesting people, and you can improve their lives simply by talking to them, helping them out a little bit, pointing them in the right direction—things that most people won’t do. You see somebody on the street. You go to a conference. You see them. How many times have you started talking with somebody they’re struggling, and you just see the other person? There’s no advice or whatnot—“Oh, so sorry for you.” Even if it’s a little bit of information to help improve their life, I’ll do it.

Rachel Bozeman 17:40
So we started this conversation talking about your dreams and aspirations of being a musician, and then saying, “What gives the better bonuses?” All those decisions were made out of youth and wonderful things. So let’s go back to those days. Let’s go back to that youth. If you could give yourself advice from those younger years, and you know everything you know now, how would your military transition have looked different?

Daniel Benjamin 18:07
As I’m transitioning, I’d get more advice about my resume—work with either a professional resume writer or some of my contractor friends. Also being a cleared individual, having to go through pre-pub with that also adds a lot of time that you don’t think about. I’d recommend, once you have the plan that, “Hey, I am going to get out,” a year out or so, start working on getting that through pre-pub, because that can be difficult in the easiest of times. And really talk to your contractor friends—if you’re in a cleared situation—yeah, you’ve got greens as a green suiter. Talk to your contractors, talk to your civilians, figure out the language to use, because contractor language is different than military language.

Kathleen Smith 18:52
Daniel, thank you so much for joining us today. It was so great to see you again on this podcast, and I loved hearing your story. Thanks again. Been.

Daniel Benjamin 19:00
An absolute pleasure. Thank you. Thank you.

Kathleen Smith 19:04
So it’s really great to talk with Daniel and get his insights. I have to applaud someone who went through a military transition at the same time as a spouse and was mentoring his spouse. The fact that they stayed married through that helped each other—I think that was just amazing, and I’m sure there’s probably a few people out in the audience who are going through the same thing. Rachel, what about you?

Rachel Bozeman 19:27
So much goodness there, but I really appreciate just the reminder about giving back—that sometimes it’s just having that conversation, or sharing an insight, or talking about a resume, but just not letting those conversations go unhad because it could make the difference for somebody, and thought that was such a great thing that Daniel shared, and just his passion and his empathy for others was pretty inspiring. Well, that’s a wrap, everyone. Make sure you drop this episode in your group chats with your fellow service members. Give us a follow to catch the next one, and keep building your path forward. Until next time, toodles.